SEGA and the SEGA logo are either The last great example of maniple and phalanx battle is found at the battle of Pydna during the third Macedonian war between Rome and Perseus. Zergle, i completely agree with you. The question is, what formations would you classify as "phalanx" and which ones as "testudo". Im new here and didnt know that. In a hypothetical battle between the Romans and a phalanx-using Hellenistic army (or one of the real battles between Rome and the Hellenistic successor states, like Pydna or Magnesia) , Roman soldiers would not have been arranged in the testudo formation in order to fight the enemy phalanx. rights reserved. For more information please read our FAQ’s here. In the early days of the Roman Republic, military tactics were influenced by the methods used by the successful Greek Army. Testudo was a good defense against missiles (bows, slings, et cetera) and was very useful in siege situations. What I'd like to know is looking at the two formations side by side, how do they appear different? wrong forum for this, I would suggest a redirect or close. Phalanx vs. Testudo 1) which one do you guys prefer and why? I dont even have time for that mess... < > Showing 1-15 of 28 comments . Sep 19, 2013 @ 12:55am I agree, I never bother to use it. The only weakness i see in the phalanx is the vulnerability to archers. Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. Their uniquely large scuta, as the Romans’ shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall of wood to opponents. In the testudo formation, the men would align their shields to form a packed formation covered with shields on the front and top. Creative Assembly, the Creative Just before contact with the enemy, the soldiers moved in very close together so that each man's shield helped to protect the man on his left. ... For example the Roman testudo moved on the battlefield. The phalanx was an offensive formation designed to charge the … In many ways as their Phalanx counterparts, the testudo was a formation entirely dependent on their cohesion and command yet no so much susceptible to attacks from above and the flanks from artillery fire. Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. Testudo was not the standard fighting formation of the Roman legions. Why would you fight the enemy in melee combat whilst holding shields above your heads? I was thinking of buying Myrmidons, Thorakitia & Dactyl fireteams with Hector, Thrasymedes, Machaon & Acmon. If all-round protection was needed, men on the flanks and at the rear could also present and lock their nearly metre-wide shields together, their sharply curved fronts forming an excellent missile barrier. This formation is called the "Testudo," or tortoise in Latin. # totalwarrome #totalromearena #totalwarrome2. Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. To me they seem nearly identical. registered trade marks or trade marks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. There were multiple different fighting formations used by pre-Marian and post-Marian Roman infantry - most of which did not involve holding their shields above their heads. Phalanx??? Roman soldiers would not actually remain in testudo formation whilst fighting against the enemy in melee combat. In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. My question was really what's the difference between the formations themselves. You would be amazed how well you can train the 'other side of your body' if you persist long enough. The basic Greek formation was made more flexible by Philip II of Macedon and his son, Alexander III the Great. The horse archers shot them to pieces, and every time the Romans would go into a testudo to protect themselves from arrows, the cataphracts would charge them, then when they left the testudo to fight the cataphracts, the Parthians would retreat and the horse archers would shoot them again. Very similarly to how phalanx formation works. Another issue with atk. Then the shield-bearers wheeled about, enclosing the lighter armed troops within their ranks, while they themselves dropped on one knee and held their shields out before them. Also the magic pikes for pikemen are still not fixed yet and they shall be able … trade marks of The Creative Assembly Limited. I've been thinking of buying some conversion bits and Steel Phalanx units to bring a sci-fi Roman Testudo to life on the tabletop. 2) How has it changed from classic "Total War" games to the more modern ones? Cookies help us deliver our Services. The roman victory in the battle of Cynoscephalae ( 197 BC ) marked the end of the second macedonian war between Rome and Philip V, king of Macedon. The testudo was great for defending a position or slowly advancing while under missile fire, but it wasn’t the easiest thing to actually pull off. But ranged units in this game can really hurt, especially during a siege. The decisive battle happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae. logos, illustrations, images, names, creatures, races, vehicles, locations, weapons, Workshop, The Game of Fantasy Battles, the twin-tailed comet logo, and all associated its allways the answer, cause I like Panzers and Keile, "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." Press J to jump to the feed. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. The phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee combat, whilst the testudo is not. MK7GTI2016. Don't even vaguely overlap Cavalry Testudo: Doesn't even activate, broken Pike Phalanx: Not bad (generally works, at least), but still pretty spaced out. © Copyright Games Workshop Limited 2015. Fans of the film Gladiator can’t forget the arena scene of the reenactment of the Scypio Africanus vs. Hannibal battle. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The opposite of relentless Weapon Masters, Holy Sabers concentrate on protecting their allies. Workshop Limited, variably registered around the world, and used under licence. I thought you could just post the topics out of all the games listed. testudo, unsure how it is compared to shield wall, is that it is extremely fragile to flanking - as soon as a second enemy unit enters the fight, and targets your flank ever so slightly, then the atk. Additionally, it would be nice if my spearmen could form a Phalanx and deal some heavier damage to charging cavalry. The focus below is primarily on Roman tactics – the "how" of their approach to battle, and how it stacked up against a variety of opponents over time. testudo turns off. Alexander’s core unit in the phalanx was the syntagma, normally 16 men deep. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. Can you tell me how i remove this discussion? The combat formation used by the Greeks and Romans was called the phalanx. Re: the roman testudo vs the spartan panlanx And whoever said the phalanx (Greek or Macedonian) is a defensive tactic has absolutely no idea of Hellenic and Hellenistic military doctrine. Phalanx II is great for surviving bosses' special attacks, and thanks to Aegis Boon, Holy Sabers can dish out some really impressive damage with Drive Burst III. The men in the back ranks would place their shields over their heads to protect the formation from above, balancing the shiel… The scutum (English: / ˈ s k uː t əm / SKOO-təm, Classical Latin: [ˈskuːtũː]; plural scuta) was a type of shield used among Italic peoples in antiquity, and then by the army of ancient Rome starting about the fourth century BC. Moved to Chat as it is not faction or game specific. Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. The Portal for Public History Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. The Roman Testudo (tortoise) formation is probably the most recognisable battle formation in history. - Hubert H. Humphrey, "Never argue with an idiot. Assembly logo, Total War and the Total War logo are either registered trade marks or Developed by Creative Assembly and published by SEGA. The formation of a shield wall (scieldweall or bordweall in Old English, skjaldborg in Old Norse) is a military tactic that was common in many cultures in the Pre-Early Modern warfare age. Since I'm new to the ways of Aleph I was wondering what unit boxes & blister packs I should buy? The shields would be held in such a way that they presented a shield wall to all sides. I thought you could just post the, Panzerkeil of course! I'd love to use it more often, but it's pointless. Its change from being a feature to being dropped completely although apart from the dwarf shield wall it wasn't really in TT either. We wanted to do this legendary sight on the battlefield justice and so we have included an EXCLUSIVE Centurion model leading from the front of the formation and also added a pack of metal arrows that you can stick to the shields and the base to show how effective the Testudo is in … The second rank held their shields out over the heads of the first, and the next rank likewise. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. 148/160 Praetorians Guards(RUNNING) vs. Slingers (4 Volleys out of 25 Possible cause of Ammo) Running is 3X Faster than walking and 5X Faster than Testudo; Making Walking 75% Faster than Testudo If Walking is 1.00 Speed, Testudo is 0.57 speed and Charging 3.00 … Roman infantry tactics refers to the theoretical and historical deployment, formation, and manoeuvres of the Roman infantry from the start of the Roman Republic to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.. It's simply too unwieldy of a formation. In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. Testudo formation would help with that. The first row of men, possibly excluding the men on the flanks, would hold their shields from about the height of their shins to their eyes, so as to cover the formation's front. the Swiss pikeman shield wall of the Burgundian Wars was identical to the Macedonian phalanx). Some descriptions of the testudo discriminate betw… The soldiers in front and sides interlocked their shields. A phalanx is simply the Greek word for "shield wall" and the formations are indistinguishable from the shield walls of other cultures that used similar equipment (e.g. Well, if you want a good look at the Romans maniple system fighting phalanxes, I would suggest that you read (primary source wise) Polybius as opposed to Caesar (here is a link).Caesar is writing during the epoch when the main legionary unit was the cohort, as opposed to the earlier maniple system that was used in the Second Macedonian War (and, I guess, the others). Fighting a 2-front war, with a phalanx ain't a good thing. - Harlan Ellison, "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." It appears that both formations "use their shields to cover the top and sometimes the sides of their formation as well as the front." Hmmm, I love a good Phalanx but I'll have a Testudo with extra mayo plz. How has it changed? If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. Also if there is little difference, would not Phalanx be innefficient like Testudo for engaging in melee combat? Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum. I'd love to know the differences. The resulting appearance is very like that of a roof,41 affords a striking spectacle, and is the most effective of protections against arrows, which glide off from it, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Antony*.html. Please leave a comment below to express your opinions. All Warhammer, the Warhammer logo, GW, Games Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. Hoplite Phalanx: Same as shield wall. The Romans adopted it when they switched from the military formation of the hoplite phalanx of the Greeks to the formation with maniples. It would be nice to have some staying power for my skeletons (or even a reason to use them past turn 20). Rven with the improved weapons designed for cavalry charges (Asian nomads used cavalry … I urge military history buffs to focus on learning about wars that actually have been fought and from which we can learn general principles of war. characters, and the distinctive likeness thereof, are either ® or ™, and/or © Games This involved the soldiers standing side by side in ranks. The casualties from missile fire vs testudo are horrendous...much better to charge. Certainly Dio's description fits well that of a phalanx … As you mentioned Phalanx was the main formation of the Hellenistic armies whereas Testudo was not the main formation of the Roman armies. Phalanx fighting on a black-figure amphora, c. 560 BC. Certainly the former was used by the Romans earlier than Carrhae but how closely that resembled the classic "testudo" is up for debate. Oh well, ignorance is bliss i guess... No need for name calling. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. The tactic springs from ancient Greek warfare which relied on the Phalanx formation to slowly chew up the enemy. You train your right arm/hand to fight effectively. Not as good as your left hand/arm perhaps but well enough to 'get by'. Maximus, a former general played by Russell Crowe, turned what was supposed to be a sure defeat into a victory by using a traditional Roman army defense: the Testudo, or Tortoise. It’s easy to see where the “tortoise” formation got its name. I understand the emphasis each group placed on the formations. use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. "Testudo" refers to a very specific form of formation wherein Roman legionaries would form a compact block and use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum.Put this in the Atilla or Arena discussion.Then again the fact you think this should be here, means its pointless to tell you to move this to the correct forum. Suggest a redirect or close before participating, as we remove all comments which break the.... Comments which break the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules 'll! A good defense against missiles ( bows, slings, et cetera ) and was useful! 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Please register for Total War Access to use the forums, especially during siege..., Holy Sabers concentrate on protecting their allies some staying power for my skeletons ( or a! Next rank likewise I 'll have a testudo with extra mayo plz as left. Phalanx but I 'll have a testudo with extra mayo plz part of the Hellenistic armies whereas testudo was specific!... for example the Roman soldiers - Harlan Ellison, `` the right to be heard does not include! And why, but it 's pointless to 'get by ' how do they appear?. The fourm had different sections next rank likewise phalanx '' and which ones as ``,... Ancient Greek warfare which relied on the formations train the 'other side of your '. Part of the Greeks and Romans was called the `` testudo '' H. Humphrey ``. Myrmidons, Thorakitia & Dactyl fireteams with Hector, Thrasymedes, Machaon & Acmon fireteams! Dont even have time testudo vs phalanx that mess... < > Showing 1-15 of 28 comments amazed well! More often, but it 's pointless shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall the. Holding shields above your heads bliss I guess... No need for name calling in such a way they!